Rules, flameout, exploits and bans

[Vlada]

Rules, flameout, exploits and bans

August 2012
The SWGEmu Team



3.10 The SWGEmu Team encourages the reporting of any and all exploits. You are required to immediately report and discontinue use of all discovered exploits or face disciplinary action listed below.

3.10.1 Exploits include, but are not limited to; all forms of hacking, exploiting and all other actions intended to break, bend or in anyway alter the SWGEmu gameplay experience in favor of one player or against another player.
3.10.2 Report all exploits to the Quality Assurance department at http://www.swgemu.com/bugs using the Exploit category or send to quality@swgemu.com
3.10.3 As a first offense, there will be a warning issued directing the guilty party to the Quality Assurance department. Offenders are required to immediately disclose all known information about the exploit. Failure to comply with this policy will result in an immediate permanent ban from all SWGEmu services. This ban will include the immediate deletion of all known characters, items, disbanding of guilds if guild leader, and removal of all items being sold by the user on the marketplace



We are all fully aware of what the rules on exploits and exploiting are, but yesterdays events, the agony we went though in our staff channel trying to determine if enforcing those rules is something that will help this project and speed up development in the long run, forced us to revisit some of our rules and after more than 10 hours of going back and forth we did manage to agree on a few things...


Rules were made during the Old Nova almost 3 years ago, and though they made sense then (the Old Nova was purely a play server outdated code no longer in development), they dont make much sense now.
All exploits and all circumstances are not the same
We are still in development and Basilisk is not a production server


Zero-tolerance is the policy for production servers like SunCrusher will be, but we are still in a phase where we need to find and squash as many of these exploits as possible before SunCrusher is launched (or other communities for that matter). Exploits like this could ruin economies quickly, and in a no-wipe scenario, that simply isn't acceptable; I'm pretty sure that most of you have seen evidence of the affects of that already on Basilisk. The good news is we have squashed many of the worst, most glaring, exploits, and continue improving on that front. Basilisk has way less exploits than old Nova and early Liberator had by a long shot.

Still, those who exploit and make no effort to come forward will be punished accordingly. Report exploits. Don't try to hide them.


Because of all this we have decided to change our rules to something more development friendly


3.10 The SWGEmu Team encourages the reporting of any and all exploits. You are required to immediately report and discontinue use of all discovered exploits or face disciplinary action listed below.

3.10.1 A bug is defined as an unintended result of a game function that is unintentionally encountered and/or cannot be bypassed without altering the intended gameplay experience.
3.10.2 Exploiting is defined as the commission of an action within the game to circumvent or alter the normal functions of said game.
3.10.3 Hacking is defined as altering the client to perform functions outside of its normal operation, altering data transmitted between the client and server, or attempting to gain unauthorized access to SWGEmu servers.
3.10.4 Report all exploits to exploits@swgemu.com, www.swgemu.com/bugs (http://www.swgemu.com/bugs), support.swgemu.com (http://support.swgemu.com/), or drop a PM on forums or IRC to Devs or QA
3.10.5 Offenders are required to immediately disclose all known information about the exploit. Failure to comply with this policy will result in an immediate actions taken against their accounts. Punishment will be determent depending on the severity of the offense and willingness to disclose details of exploit by SWGEmu Staff




Recently, the Flameout bug has been touted as an exploit. In fact, little was known about the circumstanced revolving around the bug. After thorough investigation, the development team found that Flameout itself was simply bugged, and was not exploited intentionally. Any player who obtained Flameout with +100% mitigation would have experienced this bug, thus unavoidably exploiting it if they eat Flameout at all. This is considered a bug that is not 100% in control of the player. In other words, the player cannot avoid the exploit while playing the game legitimately. They took no nefarious action to generate the exploit.

I will contrast it against the Clue Quest exploit that was existent about a month ago. The Clue Quest exploit required the user to conciously make an effort outside the parameters of normal game play to exploit the intended mechanic. In this instance, the player had to bring up multiple interface input boxes before entering information into any of them. This would allow them to receive the reward multiple times. The player had complete control over opening the interface boxes multiple times. They had the choice to only bring it up once, and still experience the full intended result.

In the Flameout bug, however, the player had no control over experiencing the bug. Using the food forced them to experience the bug, regardless of whether they intended to experience it or not. This is akin to the players who have logged in to find phantom buffs applied permanently to their character; they did nothing to pursue this unintended, yet advantageous effect, but are the unsuspecting victims of the phantom buff.

However, a few players took the Flameout bug to a new level, by using it to continuously farm high-end content, knowing that it was not working as intended, and would make them invulnerable to damage. Furthermore, they engaged in player versus player combat, giving them a completely unfair advantage over their opponents. Without agreement from all parties involved, this behavior is not tolerated. On top of this, they failed to report this bug in a timely manner.

We define a timely manner as being within 24 hours after being able to readily reproduce a bug.

As staff, we have to remain objective when considering a circumstance where exploits are being considered. Even if the person is a highly suspected and past offender, we need to treat the individual as though he or she has no history when we are determining guilt. However, past offenses may be considered when determining punishment.


With all this in mind we have offered our latest offenders a chance to reduce their sentences if they disclose all the details of the exploits/bugs they were using, which of course they did.

So we gave them a choice:


Two months forums ban + two months Basilisk ban

Two months forums ban + Character caught exploiting permanently confiscated (with all its belongings, credits, structures, etc)

Their choice is their own and we will not disclose that, but I'm sure you will find out soon enough on your own.



To avoid situations like these SWGEmu team wants to remind everyone that this is till a development project and that all exploits need to be reported as soon as they are discovered.




~ The SWGEmu Staff

[Johnnyburma]

Thanks for the update, Vlada

[Ykir]

Wow. Good job.

[Relic61]

Dunno about you, but when I take out the trash, it doesn't come back. Just sayin

[Vlada]

Dunno about you, but when I take out the trash, it doesn't come back. Just sayin

Yes, but you live in a finished house, we on the other hand are still trying to build ours. What looks like trash atm can be used to reinforce a wall of the house later, so better to keep it around just in case.

[calous]

good post, seems fair.

[Toglco]

How do you guys feel about the player bounty hunting? I understand that a fix has been made and will be on Basilisk with the next publish, how do you feel about players who continue to engage in player bounty hunting before the next publish comes around?

[Onilwyn]

Yes, but you live in a finished house, we on the other hand are still trying to build ours. What looks like trash atm can be used to reinforce a wall of the house later, so better to keep it around just in case.

Very well said and big kudo's to the emu team for all their hard work

[roodypooh]

#2 is an easy work around....but thanks for letting the cat out of the bag on that one.....so now everyone knows if you are going to exploit on one toon make sure you transfer all items you loot and your good weapons/armor/credits etc etc to 2nd character before you get banned so when they delete all your stuff one the banned toon all your good stuff is on a different character....ty for letting everyone know what to do for the next time to avoid a 2month ban. lol

[Vlada]

#2 is an easy work around....but thanks for letting the cat out of the bag on that one.....so now everyone knows if you are going to exploit on one toon make sure you transfer all items you loot and your good weapons/armor/credits etc etc to 2nd character before you get banned so when they delete all your stuff one the banned toon all your good stuff is on a different character....ty for letting everyone know what to do for the next time to avoid a 2month ban. lol

Actually that was a one time deal, punishments will vary depending on the crime, but one thing is for sure, simple toon removal wont be done again. That one is off the table.

[PRONG]

Thank You Thank You Thank You to TheAnswer, cRush, Vlada and anybody else involved in those discusions yesterday. It did alot for the morale of the huge influx of 2012'ers who have no idea of the history/drama of certain players in this project.

Thank you for putting up with a community that is mostly selfish, whining,complaining and ungrateful and clueless, while you guys, work for free, in your spare time..so that we may play a video game for free.

[Ploute]

Okay so here is the real question, what about the BH bug with the Terminals?

[Ykir]

Thank You Thank You Thank You to TheAnswer, cRush, Vlada and anybody else involved in those discusions yesterday. It did alot for the morale of the huge influx of 2012'ers who have no idea of the history/drama of certain players in this project.

Thank you for putting up with a community that is mostly selfish, whining,complaining and ungrateful and clueless, while you guys, work for free, in your spare time..so that we may play a video game for free.

I read a lot, old posts, current posts, etc. Years of being a forum ***** has taught me to take everything with a grain of salt. That being said, it was easy to understand that there was a history of "things" with certain individuals. Easy because when multiple sources say the same thing and the subject only talks smack instead of defending himself the answer is obvious.

Seriously though, your comment about 2012'ers only served to make you look like someone who feels entitled, and is bitter at the same time that there are new kids on the block with opinions.

Anyhow, nice to meet you. This was just my .02¢. The things that go on in this forum is the same stuff that went on in live, here there are just a lot more whining.

[bigevil]

This was a published FYI. Lets keep the unrelated side banter and name calling out please. :)

Thanks.

[Ykir]

This was a published FYI. Lets keep the unrelated side banter and name calling out please. :)

Thanks.

Okay, sorry. Thanks for all that the team does, btw.

[fastdak25]

this is a nice update, glad to hear something is being done. But still, what about their alts? The houses, credits and other loot/belongings they have received from exploiting? My own personal opinion is have every character on their account taken/deleted, make them start from scratch. Again just my idea, not trying to tell devs what to do.

[Reggan]

i am glad that something was done about this, this restores my faith in this server.

[Valkyra]

Okay so here is the real question, what about the BH bug with the Terminals?

It's been fixed on unstable already (check TRAC)

[Lolindir]

Would say that this was handled well by staff, having the current state of the Emu in mind, development and all. It would have looked differently on a live server, as I'm sure we all know.

[PRONG]

i am glad that something was done about this, this restores my faith in this server.

My point exactly. We got alot of new players here..(2012'ers in case you're wondering), who have TONS of games to play, to pick from. We've all been sucked in by the hype, the graphics, I have quad nVidia 670's and you don't so you can't play the game HAHA...the super releases we have waited years for, only to realize ,' Yeah ,the graphics are good...yeah, the voice acting IS thorough...but howcome they ruined helicopters ? Howcome 'they' took away commander? Howcome they gave Jedi to everybody? Howcome crafting and resources are an afterthought....

Then we come back to a game from nearly 9 years ago...All of a sudden, graphics don't matter anymore do they? TOTALLY don't give a f$#k do we ?
...Community and freedom are what matters.
Grinding/'work' is rewarded again.

What If we THEN found out, or perceived, that the last SHREAD of integrity in all video game history (SWGemu staff in this case) was non-responsive to blatant corruption, we'd have nothing.

We would all end up playing Crysis of BattleDuty 17 on our facebook accounts via our iPhone7's while driving.

Praise the SwiggyMoo team for actually LISTENING to the cries of their 'customers' yesterday, something John Smedley and SONY never did.

[Emerzon]

Good read, thanks for the update.

[Superjebus]

That explains a lot.....

[Madatar]

My point exactly. We got alot of new players here..(2012'ers in case you're wondering), who have TONS of games to play, to pick from. We've all been sucked in by the hype, the graphics, I have quad nVidia 670's and you don't so you can't play the game HAHA...the super releases we have waited years for, only to realize ,' Yeah ,the graphics are good...yeah, the voice acting IS thorough...but howcome they ruined helicopters ? Howcome 'they' took away commander? Howcome they gave Jedi to everybody? Howcome crafting and resources are an afterthought....

Then we come back to a game from nearly 9 years ago...All of a sudden, graphics don't matter anymore do they? TOTALLY don't give a f$#k do we ?
...Community and freedom are what matters.
Grinding/'work' is rewarded again.

What If we THEN found out, or perceived, that the last SHREAD of integrity in all video game history (SWGemu staff in this case) was non-responsive to blatant corruption, we'd have nothing.

We would all end up playing Crysis of BattleDuty 17 on our facebook accounts via our iPhone7's while driving.

Praise the SwiggyMoo team for actually LISTENING to the cries of their 'customers' yesterday, something John Smedley and SONY never did.


Love the sig:)

[Mosegris]

The offenders must be laughing all the way to their bank.. Seems crime DOES pay in this game after all.
I'll be happy to take a 2 month forum ban if you give me 100 mill worth of loot...

[nikj]

That wasn't an option available to them.

[Mosegris]

That wasn't an option available to them.
Wasn't it?
If they chose option 1:
They can just make and alt and play for 2 months with that alt. When the 2 moths are over they have 100 mill on their original toons. Tadaa.

[ztrexx]

The offenders must be laughing all the way to their bank.. Seems crime DOES pay in this game after all.
I'll be happy to take a 2 month forum ban if you give me 100 mill worth of loot...

the time you spend doing youre crimes and then the 2 months for 100 mil ? looks like poor income to me.

besides this is on a alpha server, who says there wount be a db wipe during the 2 months ?

[nikj]

Wasn't it?
If they chose option 1:
They can just make and alt and play for 2 months with that alt. When the 2 moths are over they have 100 mill on their original toons. Tadaa.

Not without breaking the multiple account rules they can't.

And, really, I would guess that they're being watched fairly closely with regards to that.

[stevengw]

all toons are database linked i asume? so all items/creds gained, sold transfered become traceable data...
Sony were able to catch all credits in game to account by adding >= booleans into the banking or inventory script, i remember reading about it.

(Lag, pet hate of mine!)
Also on a note about lag! It was said once that, the animals left behind at nests which aren't killed should auto despawn after x amount of time!
I was on naboo the other night, out hunting, it was nearly imposible to find my nest with all the left over mobs from killed nests.

[Jaddynnstarr]

While I applaud the actions taken by the developement team, the severity of the case does not reflect the punishment IMHO... Character confiscation should be a given in this matter. Allowing them to retain ANYTHING from their exploitations is a HUGE FAIL otherwise. What does this say to offenders? I know what it says to me... it says hey... i can go to all the banks in my hometown and rob them of all their money, then if i get caught, i can do 2 years prison and keep the $20 million I just stole.... Id do 2 years for 20 million.... just sayin...

You should have stripped the account of all its belongings without warning and reset every toon on it to lvl 1. Anything less then that displays percieved weakness on the part of the Developement team. this is all just MY opinion, so take it with whatever you think its worth... Once again, I applaud your actions, they just werent harsh enuff.

[Mosegris]

Not without breaking the multiple account rules they can't.

And, really, I would guess that they're being watched fairly closely with regards to that.

People that do this already have several accounts, wife, 2 kids, 2 adopted kids, grandpa and grandma, mom and dad etc.

[Relic61]

Those accounts should have been deleted period and perma bans for the offenders.

[ljay1973]

This is a step in the right direction. Something that will help to raise the preceived legitimacy of the Emu team.
The community needs to see that finding exploits is required but using them will not be tolerated.

I do have to question if the punishment for those involved was of sufficient severity.
As has been said before, those who exploit like this will undoubtedly have broken the single account rule already.
And, for many involved, this won't be their first ban for exploiting.

[FLAKPANZER]

Thanks for the hard work and update Vlada and Dev team.
It isn't said enough.

[Vlada]

I do have to question if the punishment for those involved was of sufficient severity.
As has been said before, those who exploit like this will undoubtedly have broken the single account rule already.
And, for many involved, this won't be their first ban for exploiting.

Maybe it wasn't severe enough, but we were setting a precedent and changing our rules. Like I've said before, this kind of punishment was offered now but will not be offered to anyone again. This is just the first step, we hope its a step in the right direction.

There is no perfect system that can prevent multiple accounts abuse and those willing to put in extra time and effort will always find a way to go around any system we create. Only thing we can do is ban them when we catch them doing it.

[eargosedown]

Good on you guys! And thanks for keeping us updated.

[ljay1973]

Maybe it wasn't severe enough, but we were setting a precedent and changing our rules. Like I've said before, this kind of punishment was offered now but will not be offered to anyone again. This is just the first step, we hope its a step in the right direction.

There is no perfect system that can prevent multiple accounts abuse and those willing to put in extra time and effort will always find a way to go around any system we create. Only thing we can do is ban them when we catch them doing it.

Its definitely a step in the right direction. And a great sign for the future of the project (I feel anyway).
As I've said in other posts, more overt action from the team will have a huge effect on the way the project is perceived. But we can't expect you VOLUNTEERS (I think we all need to sometimes remember thats what you are) to police the server at all times, we need to do some policing ourselves, through exploit reporting and the simple act of not tolerating exploiters or having anything to do with them. This may mean turning down the big credits for a sale, but it will be for the best in the long run.

[Reano]

Maybe it wasn't severe enough, but we were setting a precedent and changing our rules. Like I've said before, this kind of punishment was offered now but will not be offered to anyone again. This is just the first step, we hope its a step in the right direction.

There is no perfect system that can prevent multiple accounts abuse and those willing to put in extra time and effort will always find a way to go around any system we create. Only thing we can do is ban them when we catch them doing it.

I think that the action was tempered adequately. It was a change in rules and therefore, gives the benefit of a hard slap and begins to set the tone. Your second statement is exactly the dilemma of trying to set rules. Anyone who wants to try hard enough, will always find a way around them.

[Quantum]

Imo:

Smart and professional as always Vlada (and SWGEmu team). Use exploiter's "cleverness" to learn more about the exploits to make the game better for everyone. Part of life/MMOs is learning how to get ahead of the wolf pack. Exploits are one way of doing this and some people are willing to take that risk. As long as it is not game breaking I think a 2-month ban is reasonable. Like you said let the punishment correlate with the impact and risk of the exploit. Especially during development stages you WANT huge game breaking exploits to come to light rather than have exploiters hoard them until Sun Crusher.

[hunterk03]

well way i look at it is like this, if people sploit it gets caught. gets caught gets fixed. none of thier cheating is going to matter once the wipe happens. All those 100s of millions of ill gotten goods will go poof, but thier reputation stays. Maybe they will turn around, or maybe they will keep at it who knows but why worry now when all of this will get a squeeky clean slate when Suncrusher is released. Awesome job devs you rock!

[AzizaEno]

well way i look at it is like this, if people sploit it gets caught. gets caught gets fixed. none of thier cheating is going to matter once the wipe happens. All those 100s of millions of ill gotten goods will go poof, but thier reputation stays. Maybe they will turn around, or maybe they will keep at it who knows but why worry now when all of this will get a squeeky clean slate when Suncrusher is released. Awesome job devs you rock!


You want the exploit to be carried over when it goes live... that they'll behave? Is that what you're saying?

If it's not the message you were trying to come across then I apologize, too much coffee and I've seen/read too many posters that just couldn't get the big picture, that what is really good for the game and not because it benefits "me, myself and I" ;)

[Fitterbr]

While I applaud the actions taken by the developement team, the severity of the case does not reflect the punishment IMHO... Character confiscation should be a given in this matter. Allowing them to retain ANYTHING from their exploitations is a HUGE FAIL otherwise. What does this say to offenders? I know what it says to me... it says hey... i can go to all the banks in my hometown and rob them of all their money, then if i get caught, i can do 2 years prison and keep the $20 million I just stole.... Id do 2 years for 20 million.... just sayin...

You should have stripped the account of all its belongings without warning and reset every toon on it to lvl 1. Anything less then that displays percieved weakness on the part of the Developement team. this is all just MY opinion, so take it with whatever you think its worth... Once again, I applaud your actions, they just werent harsh enuff.

The offenders needed to be given some sort of incentive to fully disclose the exploit. Id rather they help the dev team to get it fixed and possibly save them 1 week to several months of development time and get us that much closer to Suncrusher than just pull out the ban hammer and start crunching code trying to figure out what the issue was in the first place.

Props to the devs for this. Keeping cheaters at bay makes the game better for everyone.

[Odelay]

Considering the amount of repeat offenders that I am sure were also caught here, I would prefer to see a permaban (yes i realize there are ways around, but let them deal with it). These people are not the type of people I would like to play with now, or in the future as the server goes on and the project is completed. I am speaking on their level of morality and maturity, which is obviously lacking. I do agree that I appreciate the fact that at least something was done, but anything short of at least combining the two options seems like a slap on the wrist. There is no way in the world they should have been able to keep anything. They will come back and still be well ahead of 99% of the server and their exploits will have paid off in the end.

[missee]

I would have just banned the IP address for the 2 months, instead of just an account. One of the banned is already back playing again before the pixels had even settled on the OP's post. Far as I can tell, the only people who would be worried about it, are those that don't exploit in the first place. I'm glad you did something, now hopefully it get's enforced.

[Isrem]

[ ] You know that IPs are dynamic things


Nevertheless, I am glad that the devs did something at last.
It was still not answered what the BH exploiters get for exploiting and ruining others peoples fun for their own gain.

[AZIronman]

Question: is stacking a **** ton of poison C's (you shouldn't be able to pre-cu, its bugged to where you can on basilisk) considered an exploit?

[Vlada]

I think its just a bug AZ.

[wildcat]

I'm glad you guys did something, but these people got off too easy. Players who would use an exploit in this way are NOT good players and will never be responsible members of this community. They should be culled from the ranks at every opportunity.

That said, there are plenty of things in this build that don't work like Pre-CU. Melee range, for example, was never restricted to 5M or less until the CU. I also don't recall non Jedi players being on the BH terminals until the NGE.

Speaking of which, can we get some sort of official statement regarding BH players willfully exploiting THAT bug? Will they be punished at least as severely as the flameout exploiters?

[hunterk03]

You want the exploit to be carried over when it goes live... that they'll behave? Is that what you're saying?

If it's not the message you were trying to come across then I apologize, too much coffee and I've seen/read too many posters that just couldn't get the big picture, that what is really good for the game and not because it benefits "me, myself and I" ;)

nope all good what i was saying was it helps the devs that people are exploiting on the alpha server. when i say dont worry i mean those cheating will lose everything when the wipe happens. so its not a big deal to give them another chance. in a way this will assist with getting bugs cleaned up faster this way these bugs wont exist with live. nor will thier ill gotten assets. In regards to sploiting on the finished product i say ban them for life. One thing to do it in a test situation another to do it on a final copy that would be irreversible. I in no way shape or form support sploiting.

[madderhatter777]

I didn't read through the whole thread, I don't have time.

But are you telling me that 10 hours of down time was to ban people like eternal?

[xforce1]

Five things:
1. First, let me thank the SWGEMU staff for all the hard work that they do to allow the rest of us to enjoy quality in-game time. THANK YOU!!!
2. I am impressed with the judicious manner in which the team investigated the issue, related it to past issues, and decided the punishments
3. The whole matter was dealt with better than most court systems could have done... nice job.
4. I applaud the fact that those that were guilty of this offense were given a choice of lightened punishments based on the fact that we are still in a test environment.
5. The actual punishment options seem fair and just.

[Tsaktuo]

Yes, but you live in a finished house, we on the other hand are still trying to build ours. What looks like trash atm can be used to reinforce a wall of the house later, so better to keep it around just in case.
So you are saying that Exploiters that are used in this context as "Trash".. (Which might I add trash should never be used for anything but to be thrown away, that's why you have recycling bins and trash bin. Recycle good into reusable // Trash bad into unusable).. are able to be given an option on staying in the development stage or out for 2 months, either or it will still be trash and nothing more. Then once back in the development stage to be re used to *enforce are walls* with? I know China used there trash to *reinforce there walls* but that is just not ethical, which brings be to my next statement.
Now the trash has sat out for 2 month to be brought back, which in all is still trash and still stinks of trash to be placed in our walls...

So now we have old smelly trash being placed into the newly developed structure, and hope that this trash by some means will not have an after effect for what it is?

Trash is not reusable, nor does trash have a good oder after sitting around for over a couple of months.

Now all this is under the standing that exploiters are defined in this situation as trash, if they are not then this message is completely irrelevant.

[GikiRofat]

So since the flameout was considered a bug.. heck everything is a bug if it isnt working correctly does that mean that stacking poisons is a bug that when used during pvp which is purposly performed by that player it doesnt randomly occur or the player is not forced into a positon to use multiple poison C's is that considered an exploit and enforced by these rules?

[Vlada]

Flamoet should be fixed, and... Look up, AZ already asked that.

[mmcrimson]

Congrads to the devs/staff of SWGEMU. but I must tell you that I was also very surprised!

Since week one range people have exploited night sisters that will not come within 12 meters of you! People know this is wrong but they do it anyways, not because it is fun but because of the loot!
You knew that you could harvest every 15 seconds but people still abused it even though it was wide knowlege that is was suppose to be way over 20seconds
combat medic exploit, NPC spawn exploit.. AFK ackalay .....

I could go on and on with this!
The staff have done what they thought was right, even if i dissagree, they have tried. 100% A for effort...

The problem is not with the game it is with the mentality of current gamers.. The least amount of effort for the greatest amount of gain no matter who it hurts!

I am sorry but i must agree with previous posts this was a slap on the wrist to say the least! Once someone proves that they will not play by the rules they will not learn not in one week or 2 months or 10 years! Once people have proven that they have no ethics whatsoever they will never have it. In 2 months we will have the old piece of work back, or last night a new character was created run by the same piece of work and will do whatever they could to get as much as they can for the least amount of effort...


Sorry guys A for effort, but sometimes you need to cull the herd!!

[Raven6056]

Thank you for the update, Its very much appreciated .

Note to all:

Think on this...when you are invited to play in a friends house, spend time in that friends social circle and in general are made to feel like part of the family ...

THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO DEMAND THEY REDECORATE SAID HOUSE IN COLORS MORE TO YOUR LIKING, SERVE ONLY FOOD YOU LIKE AND GIVE UP ANY SAY ON THE HOUSE RULES IN FAVOR OF YOURS!

We are the guests of the Devs... think before you flame.

[rommelrommel]

Thank you for the update, Its very much appreciated .

Note to all:

Think on this...when you are invited to play in a friends house, spend time in that friends social circle and in general are made to feel like part of the family ...

THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO DEMAND THEY REDECORATE SAID HOUSE IN COLORS MORE TO YOUR LIKING, SERVE ONLY FOOD YOU LIKE AND GIVE UP ANY SAY ON THE HOUSE RULES IN FAVOR OF YOURS!

We are the guests of the Devs... think before you flame.

Your friend doesn't ask for donations to pay the rent either.

I agree that there is no need to flame over this. But, exploiting does damage people's gameplay and the overall health/experience of the server. While I am of the kick em to the curb faction, I do also realize that the devs have taken quite a reasonable position. First off, cheaters are good at cheating and will probably continue to cheat. Having them in development makes it much more likely that these are found now rather than on Suncrusher. Also, the rules that were in place didn't really lead anyone to believe that blatent exploiting could lead to serious consequences. Now obviously everyone is on notice.

But, to say that people have no basis to express frustration that the same old people are getting away with the same old stuff is just wrong.

[Avari]

I'm a little late to this post and would like to thank the devs for how they followed through. I understand this isn't a finished server and what not, I read the rules and felt some things needed to be posted in public to test my concerns for rules being selectively enforced. The situation was a repeated occurance and I was truly curious to see what would happen this time , I am glad it didn't turn out to be a situation where everyone feels they are allowed to exploit anytime and anywhere

[Bostwain]

Leave it to SWGemu to change rules after their friends get caught exploiting.

Very good and unbiased I see. Not to mention the reduction in bans.

"Oh you were caught cheating? Here's a new character."

[GestorterEngel]

Leave it to SWGemu to change rules after their friends get caught exploiting.

Very good and unbiased I see. Not to mention the reduction in bans.

"Oh you were caught cheating? Here's a new character."

Hasn't it always been like this? :P

[Jadedwarbeastx]

Two thumbs up and a big toe or two. This is actually a stroke of brilliance by the Dev team.

Info to fix game breaking exploits > All possible in game gains that can be made on an ALPHA version of a server.

The Devs have proven they will take action but as far as the exploiters being out and about again...well they did find a game breaker. Be thankful they found it in Alpha and personally if they find all the big breakers now they are only saving time in the grand scheme.

[Jafo]

This was a published FYI. Lets keep the unrelated side banter and name calling out please. :)

Thanks.

Yeah what the Nerf herder said HEHEHE! /Maskscent /Burstrun!

[retto]

Leave it to SWGemu to change rules after their friends get caught exploiting.

Very good and unbiased I see. Not to mention the reduction in bans.

"Oh you were caught cheating? Here's a new character."

surprised this didnt get locked ...

[Oldgrayone]

Your friend doesn't ask for donations to pay the rent either.

Interesting comment from a player who has not financially contributed. I'm just saying...

[Shadowreap]

Yes, but you live in a finished house, we on the other hand are still trying to build ours. What looks like trash atm can be used to reinforce a wall of the house later, so better to keep it around just in case.

words of the wise. i agree 100%

[Azirr]

All I can say is if u get 100% mitigation and u can't take dmg isn't game breaking I don't kno what the **** is...

[Darkcrystal]

FYI being a paid beta tester before, and a tester, now a game designer, what the Devs did here was fair, I know we as paid testers in most AAA companys we look to exploit, the reason is so we can find them before the player does so they can be fixed, the devs hopefully have people doing this, and its good they have found one during Alpha stage because that is the time to find an exploit.

If your unsure what an exploit is most of the time, depending on the company but its anything that is not intended by the devs and the player will take unfair advantage over , so if you think its wrong, guess what it is, so bug or not log off get rid of it. I have been in games where I would not die in PVP due to a bug and noticed hey i'm bugged and logged, was not this game it was another, but some people would of stayed on, which does the game no justice they also do not report that stuff because they like the advantage not saying everyone is that way, but I seen my fair share of people do this ...

Anyways my advice to the Devs is to have more testers looking for exploits , hacks etc that they do not want on there servers if possible. I know they work for free so maybe finding some players they may wanna do this..

Thats my 2 cents on this subject.

[Darkcrystal]

Interesting comment from a player who has not financially contributed. I'm just saying...


sadly people act this way , I would just ignore them because games'gamers have changed alot from back in the day they seem to want everything for free and they want everything there way.....

[SweetPea]

On Veers Elite Server, my Chef has +125 Food Experimentation, or is a 12 pt. Chef due to AAs and CAs. I made 2 runs of Flameout on this server that matched the same exact stats on the TC NOVA server.

26 FIll
77% Damage Reduction
4 Attacks (3 attacks on TC NOVA w/o any extra chef points)

I sold some on my vendor...
Then the next day when retrieving the 2nd run (it takes a ton of component to make very little amounts) the system message across my screen read: "Crate is broken contact Kyle if you are getting this message". (I did via i/g email)
I panicked, checked my vendors and every single crate of flameout (and single dose of it) were defunct and void of serial numbers and stats that only the day before were there.

So, all my time, effort, and product sold and bought, and on vendor are destroyed as a result to a glitch? None of my product was an exploit or a bug. In fact, I only got the FILL down to 26 from like 62 due to the Bio-additives attending to FILL. If I were to have used a Heavy additives for NUTRITION, I would have had a higher FILL rate while having a slightly higher Damage reduction. My TC Nova Flameout is the same stuff yet it was never an exploit or bug.

I do understand that you are talking about a 100% mitigation and I guess what I want to know is, does this include the Flameout I made? If not, why is my supply all destroyed? If so, then when will I gain the confidence to continue providing foods as a 12pt Chef again. Do I need to worry that anything I make that is exceptional will be pulled and destroyed? This really bites if you've put in the hours and efforts to make the top-of-the-line foods to compete with a frog whose consumables should be considered exploits. My sysnsteak can't even begin to compete with Veers Elite's frog synsteak.

I know this is part of the "testing" process, but I produced this same Flameout on TC NOVA before it broke down and not a word was said about it. Then I go onto a server to help out by being a crafter and hopefully make the server a tad more popular by actually providing products to buy and I feel utterly astonished that my goods were made null n void.

What was wrong with MY flameout? Am I going to have other foods I make taken away also? Why even bother anymore? SoE did the same thing to us but at least they gave us the heads' up.

[SweetPea]

PS: MY text may read anger but i'm not angry as much as I'm frustrated.

PPS: Oldgrayone, I ADORE your signature picture of Chewie's giant paw on P. Leia's booby, their expressions are priceless! (BTW, I have contributed to this project, even to Xavia's medical bills, only I asked to be deleted due to some people harassing me and so they instead "banned" me and now I have to start over, so u really can't truly know who has or has not contributed on here by the appearance or lack of gold bars below their avatars. :) Just sayin'.

[Valkyra]

SweetPea, what you do on Veers Elite server has 0 impact on the project, they are seperate intities.

Also Flameout was disabled on that server by the admins.

[SweetPea]

ok so my flameout stats were okay then but was made defunct anyway on Veers??

Sorry, I guess I'm finding it hard to understand if I should not make flameout anymore or not, regardless of the server. How far does this Flameout bug expand? What if I finally am able to log into TC Nova... will I need to refrain from making Flameout? Is my 77% damage reduction flameout the same as this 100% dmg mitigation bug?

I guess I'm still a tad confused, and I do humbly apologize for my lack of knowledge or ability to wrap my head around my future options as a Chef in this area. :P

I did email Kyle with massive info on my latest "broken crate" issues on Veers. I have no idea if he'll get back to me on it, nor why my supply was made into empty shells. Guess I'll take a bullet for the betterment of the project. :) Gladly, in fact if that means you're that much closer to the final stages of permanent game-play. :D

Valkyra thanks for your information and response. I guess I need to kno if I will be breaking any rules by making such good and tasty food, or should I hold off on Chef for now? What server should I not make it on what server is it okay to make it on? (why did Veers take away my flameout if this is seperate, in other words)

I guess I need to present this to the the Veers admin people then? Sorry, figured all the leaders of each server were the same people. My bad for not getting it, i'm so stupid when it comes to computer lingo! I just don't want to aid in any exploits and find myself in SWGEmu jail, so to speak. :P

I sure hope you guys are getting all the help you need financially, time-wise, and staff-wise. I really am grateful to those who have contributed to this project and keep plugging away at it. :) Thanks so much! Sorry for being so annoying if I am. I really don't mean to be.

[SweetPea]

Okay I got it... Veers had a forums and evidently they announced that they were going to make all the flameout useless to be fair, and also they are planning on another wipe just to be fair in all the loot exploits from the recent flameout bug. :) I'm so sorry for my confusion. :P Some people (me) just know how to type and play. :P Thanks for all your support and info. Glad I have a better idea about this bug and about the exploits by definition. :) Whew! I never want anyone eating bugs swimming around in MY soups or drinks! hehe

[rommelrommel]

Interesting comment from a player who has not financially contributed. I'm just saying...

Not everyone feels the need to take credit for their donations.

[Vlada]

Not everyone feels the need to take credit for their donations.

Problem is you cant make an anonymous donation, its broken. Unless someone fixed it in the meantime, which i very much doubt.

[rommelrommel]

Well, I just made one. I guess I forgot about the anonymous option not working and how to workaround it.

[rommelrommel]

Interesting comment from a player who has not financially contributed. I'm just saying...

And anyways, feel free to pick and choose what you quote obviously, but I was mostly agreeing with the decisions overall, just pointing out that people are entitled to their opinions about it. While the devs obviously run the show it's not as if the player/support base has absolutely no stake in what's happening. And, as the project relies on donations the devs don't operate in a vaccum.


sadly people act this way , I would just ignore them because games'gamers have changed alot from back in the day they seem to want everything for free and they want everything there way.....

And here's your little tag-along (who ironically hasn't made a contribution either unless he knows how to send money without getting credit for it)

How much money you donate doesn't make your ideas any better, how long ago you registered doesn't make your ideas any better, how many posts you make doesn't make your ideas any better. A few of those might speak to your committment but NONE of them should preclude anyone from expressing an opinion in a civil way.

[Hiply]

Interesting comment from a player who has not financially contributed. I'm just saying...

You know...if you were to look at my stats you would say the same thing to me...and you would be wrong since I would point you to my wife's account where the gold bars show up.

You know that whole "assume" thing?

[rabiz]

I'm glad you guys did something, but these people got off too easy. Players who would use an exploit in this way are NOT good players and will never be responsible members of this community. They should be culled from the ranks at every opportunity.

That said, there are plenty of things in this build that don't work like Pre-CU. Melee range, for example, was never restricted to 5M or less until the CU. I also don't recall non Jedi players being on the BH terminals until the NGE.

Speaking of which, can we get some sort of official statement regarding BH players willfully exploiting THAT bug? Will they be punished at least as severely as the flameout exploiters?

Jedi Players were on the BH terminals before Jump to Lightspeed.

[drakeneverhate]

Hit them Hard with the Bann stick Valada we dont need this to end up like Bloodfin(He who exploits best, Wins) Yes that was a jab at all the Zmann, Emrick and Xacius's out there .
On a side note Keep up the Amazing work guys.

[ArcAngel3]

Is there still a 100% damage mitigation bug? I observed a player in pvp last night take out a number of overt enemy faction players. They made claims that they were unable to cause him any damage despite attacking various pools, with various weapons, various macros, skill tapes etc.. He claimed he was simply "better" than everyone else, but all seemed unconvinced. He stood still using emotes while other players attempted to do damage, and consistently failed. It was the standing still and spamming emotes while everyone failed do any damage that had me wondering.

[Thego]

Is there still a 100% damage mitigation bug? I observed a player in pvp last night take out a number of overt enemy faction players. They made claims that they were unable to cause him any damage despite attacking various pools, with various weapons, various macros, skill tapes etc.. He claimed he was simply "better" than everyone else, but all seemed unconvinced. He stood still using emotes while other players attempted to do damage, and consistently failed. It was the standing still and spamming emotes while everyone failed do any damage that had me wondering.

Combat log screenshots, fraps, etc. etc. Is needed to ban said individual, and doing this should be a perma ban.

[ArcAngel3]

Combat log screenshots, fraps, etc. etc. Is needed to ban said individual, and doing this should be a perma ban.

One of the imp guys said he had screen shots etc. and planned to submit at ticket. For my part, I was just wondering if the bug still exists.

[ArcAngel3]

Okay I just did some more reading and found that 2 damage mitigation bugs have in fact been fixed. That's the information I was looking for. Note of thanks to all who invest time, energy and other support into this project. It has been very healing and enjoyable for so many people to spend time again inside this online playground :)

[Bwill]

ill admit i havent read thru the replies to see if this was asked..
but if the person chose option 2....

and there exploit was the clue rewards?
this means they get to keep these multiple clue rewards after a 2 month ban?