SWGEmu - 1.0 and the future of JTL

[HannahBananah]

I'd like to clarify some things mentioned in here. First of all, we've been open to accepting new developers since the project opened, there has never been a point where we didn't accept worthwhile additions to the team. The reality is, our codebase is dauntingly large and complex, and very difficult for anyone new to jump into and make any sort of meaningful development progress at this point. We occasionally get people willing to contribute small changes, but big feature additions are something that would take a very through understanding of the code to even attempt. Most new people aren't willing to put that kind of time into the project, so our team rarely grows.

Also, this information doesn't mean we're abandoning JTL. For the moment, we're accepting the reality that none of us have as much free time to develop as we did in the past, and it's not worth holding back a major project milestone by tacking on multiple additional years of development while we try and work out a new backend.

We're considering 1.0 as our "the ground game is done" milestone, which means that large population test servers like Basilisk won't be necessary anymore. So at that point, when we're confident with the ground game's status is complete, we can move on to working on our own live play server environment without the 14.1 constraints. We'll still continue to make fixes to our 14.1 codebase as LK said, but we'll also be open to do our own custom changes as well.

However, don't think this means 1.0 or SunCrusher are coming soon. We've still got some major feature sets to complete first (new AI, imperial crackdown, gambling, etc), so at the very least 1 or 2 more publishes before we can say we're happy with how complete it is. Don't let it affect your decision to play, because Basilisk will still be up for a long time, and we may consider keeping it running when we spin up our own play server down the road.

So don't take this news as the team giving up on anything. Many of us want to work on JTL, but the reality is it's going to take a good amount of time. Having 1.0 not include JTL allows us to have a reasonable timeframe to completion, and it allows our player base to finally play the game without the negative affects of a testing environment like exists on Basilisk. At that point, we're able to keep poking at JTL at our own pace without the community having to wait years longer for a play server.

I think I understand now, thank you all for the hard work you do on this project
If I had any skills I would help if I could, but the hard work and love for this game you all have has and will continue to pay off!

[Mobyus1]

I'd like to clarify some things mentioned in here. First of all, we've been open to accepting new developers since the project opened, there has never been a point where we didn't accept worthwhile additions to the team. The reality is, our codebase is dauntingly large and complex, and very difficult for anyone new to jump into and make any sort of meaningful development progress at this point. We occasionally get people willing to contribute small changes, but big feature additions are something that would take a very through understanding of the code to even attempt. Most new people aren't willing to put that kind of time into the project, so our team rarely grows.

Also, this information doesn't mean we're abandoning JTL. For the moment, we're accepting the reality that none of us have as much free time to develop as we did in the past, and it's not worth holding back a major project milestone by tacking on multiple additional years of development while we try and work out a new backend.

We're considering 1.0 as our "the ground game is done" milestone, which means that large population test servers like Basilisk won't be necessary anymore. So at that point, when we're confident with the ground game's status is complete, we can move on to working on our own live play server environment without the 14.1 constraints. We'll still continue to make fixes to our 14.1 codebase as LK said, but we'll also be open to do our own custom changes as well.

However, don't think this means 1.0 or SunCrusher are coming soon. We've still got some major feature sets to complete first (new AI, imperial crackdown, gambling, etc), so at the very least 1 or 2 more publishes before we can say we're happy with how complete it is. Don't let it affect your decision to play, because Basilisk will still be up for a long time, and we may consider keeping it running when we spin up our own play server down the road.

So don't take this news as the team giving up on anything. Many of us want to work on JTL, but the reality is it's going to take a good amount of time. Having 1.0 not include JTL allows us to have a reasonable timeframe to completion, and it allows our player base to finally play the game without the negative affects of a testing environment like exists on Basilisk. At that point, we're able to keep poking at JTL at our own pace without the community having to wait years longer for a play server.

[Praxi34]

I'd like to clarify some things mentioned in here. First of all, we've been open to accepting new developers since the project opened, there has never been a point where we didn't accept worthwhile additions to the team. The reality is, our codebase is dauntingly large and complex, and very difficult for anyone new to jump into and make any sort of meaningful development progress at this point. We occasionally get people willing to contribute small changes, but big feature additions are something that would take a very through understanding of the code to even attempt. Most new people aren't willing to put that kind of time into the project, so our team rarely grows.

Also, this information doesn't mean we're abandoning JTL. For the moment, we're accepting the reality that none of us have as much free time to develop as we did in the past, and it's not worth holding back a major project milestone by tacking on multiple additional years of development while we try and work out a new backend.

We're considering 1.0 as our "the ground game is done" milestone, which means that large population test servers like Basilisk won't be necessary anymore. So at that point, when we're confident with the ground game's status is complete, we can move on to working on our own live play server environment without the 14.1 constraints. We'll still continue to make fixes to our 14.1 codebase as LK said, but we'll also be open to do our own custom changes as well.

However, don't think this means 1.0 or SunCrusher are coming soon. We've still got some major feature sets to complete first (new AI, imperial crackdown, gambling, etc), so at the very least 1 or 2 more publishes before we can say we're happy with how complete it is. Don't let it affect your decision to play, because Basilisk will still be up for a long time, and we may consider keeping it running when we spin up our own play server down the road.

So don't take this news as the team giving up on anything. Many of us want to work on JTL, but the reality is it's going to take a good amount of time. Having 1.0 not include JTL allows us to have a reasonable timeframe to completion, and it allows our player base to finally play the game without the negative affects of a testing environment like exists on Basilisk. At that point, we're able to keep poking at JTL at our own pace without the community having to wait years longer for a play server.

Spot on. I think Miztah wrapped this up right here.

[Thrax989]

It's a bit hard to contribute to the jtl portion of the project when the design concept / shift of development for it has changed constantly not to mention most of the work is done privately so there is no real open progress being made. An example of jtl progress really not being open to the public would be https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showth...ump+lightspeed if you check the videos and screen shots yes it looks nice but for a developer not on the team there is not much we can start on or contribute to when it's being worked on mostly privately or on personal development box's, More progress could be made if more transparency / code was available to work on otherwise anyone new would just be starting from scratch while other developers are working on already developed work privately.

as seen below there has been private progress https://youtu.be/6mkFM0CMrQk?t=130

[lordkator]

It's a bit hard to contribute to the jtl portion of the project when the design concept / shift...

Please you post to a link about the "Hype Train" and a video about testing as if these are proof we're holding back.

/sarcasm on
You're right, secretly we have so much fun playing JTL without you all we've just decided to keep it to ourselves.
/sarcasm off (maybe)

If you have the skills step up, seriously, I have offered full SWGEmu support for a team that can prove to our devs they can pull it off. Imagine that, official support, our servers, my tools and support keeping your systems up and running, some level of "consultation" from the rest of the dev team to help you on your way.

But to be clear, if you can't commit code to Core3 the thing you need to do for JTL will be beyond your talents. I'm sorry its a sad truth. I personally know I could do it, but it would mean my wife watching the back of my head for long periods of time. It turns out I married her because I met her in SWG so you can imagine how exciting it would be for her to watch the back of my head while I ignore her when we could be playing the game we loved and extending it beyond our wildest dreams. (sorry she didn't like JTL either, we met on the ground).

Anyway, I'm sorry this has upset people, to be clear like Miztah said we see ZERO blockers towards this becoming a future expansion. But this team is not dedicated to it, we're tired, we bashed our heads against it and in the end JTL made us tired not inspired.

What would you prefer? An inspired dev team or a tired one?

[percavil]

I personally know I could do it, but it would mean my wife watching the back of my head for long periods of time. It turns out I married her because I met her in SWG so you can imagine how exciting it would be for her to watch the back of my head while I ignore her when we could be playing the game we loved and extending it beyond our wildest dreams. (sorry she didn't like JTL either, we met on the ground).

Too bad they didn't meet in space, things would be alot different.
Ok guys you heard it, just need to convince his wife that he's fulfilling his purpose in life of making swgemu 14.1 compliant.

Lol just kidding, im actually happy that this will bring us closer to the server wipe. That's about the only thing im looking forward to.

[Poobacca]

Is there any chance of asking Sony/****** for rights to use the original JTL code? Didn't the base code remain the same throughout Live? (other than stuff being added to it?)
It would sure be quicker than starting from scratch like for the ground game. But didn't you have to start from scratch on the ground since they deleted and changed the base code for CU and NGE?

[lordkator]

Is there any chance of asking Sony/****** for rights to use the original JTL code? Didn't the base code remain the same throughout Live? (other than stuff being added to it?)
It would sure be quicker than starting from scratch like for the ground game. But didn't you have to start from scratch on the ground since they deleted and changed the base code for CU and NGE?

We asked, they said bring $250m in unmarked bills to the next meeting and we'll think about it.



Seriously think about what you just typed man, this is a multi-billion dollar franchise and we're not worth the dirt on the bottom of the shoe of the guy catering the food for the last movie shoot.

[cdent4]

We asked, they said bring $250m in unmarked bills to the next meeting and we'll think about it.



Seriously think about what you just typed man, this is a multi-billion dollar franchise and we're not worth the dirt on the bottom of the shoe of the guy catering the food for the last movie shoot.

When this game is a non-profit, for love of the game type thing, it's a legit question. If swgEMU was trying to make a profit off of it, that would be different. They made concessions to allow you to develop the ground game. It only makes sense that maybe those concessions would include JTL. But we all also understand the concept of greed and intellectual property.

[lordkator]

When this game is a non-profit, for love of the game type thing, it's a legit question. If swgEMU was trying to make a profit off of it, that would be different. They made concessions to allow you to develop the ground game. It only makes sense that maybe those concessions would include JTL. But we all also understand the concept of greed and intellectual property.

In all seriousness, think of what you were doing 15 years ago at work. Pause.. Seriously think.. now some random person walks up and asks you to recreate all that.. Yea good luck.

The rightful IP owners of SW need to protect themselves from less than scrupulous people out there, by law if they don't protect one intrusion then others can proceed without resistance. With that in mind we have skirted along the edges for a long time, there is no need to try and get people to remember what they wrote 15 years ago and meanwhile risk being the "Example" needed by case law for the rightful owners of SW IP to prove they're defending their IP.

[cdent4]

In all seriousness, think of what you were doing 15 years ago at work. Pause.. Seriously think.. now some random person walks up and asks you to recreate all that.. Yea good luck.

The rightful IP owners of SW need to protect themselves from less than scrupulous people out there, by law if they don't protect one intrusion then others can proceed without resistance. With that in mind we have skirted along the edges for a long time, there is no need to try and get people to remember what they wrote 15 years ago and meanwhile risk being the "Example" needed by case law for the rightful owners of SW IP to prove they're defending their IP.

What was I doing 15 years ago? I was paying Sony $15.99 (or however much it was) a month to play this game, along with the 100s of thousands, if not millions of other people doing the exact same thing. That being said, unless they are developing a replacement to SWG, it seems like they could make some more coinage by reintroducing the game to the masses for a playing fee. I would pay to play it again if it had full JTL included.

[Poobacca]

We asked, they said bring $250m in unmarked bills to the next meeting and we'll think about it.



Seriously think about what you just typed man, this is a multi-billion dollar franchise and we're not worth the dirt on the bottom of the shoe of the guy catering the food for the last movie shoot.

Sad...I would only put that value on Smedster. Too bad they can't see the value of people who loved the game so much that they are still here and are trying to recreate it.

[Lolindir]

Slim to non would be my guess. What would their incentive be to give anything to us?

[zimbab]

Slim to non would be my guess. What would their incentive be to give anything to us?

Happy retarded fan base that is still holding and hoping to get to play 15-16 year old game?

And someone that is holding key to that also played swg and hopefully hates Smedly....

[hotsplice]

What would their incentive be to give anything to us?

Advertising. They can advertise on the (now unskippable) start-up screen. I don't want to get off-topic though. Just want to tell you guys that, although I'm very bummed-out by the news, I support you 100% and will continue to donate money to the cause. I think finishing the ground game, wiping Basilisk and starting fresh with a balanced server (i.e. not as many toons per player) will be fantastic. But having said that: YOU WILL FINISH JTL AND MAKE IT PART OF THE GAME. It ain't SWG, hell, it ain't Star Wars, without space, and JTL was particularly awesome. I'm one of those people who have been hanging on this whole time waiting for JTL because that's the most important part. Not the ground game. So, we're going to figure out getting JTL up and running. We're going to break through all obstacles like Bula Matari. No sleep till lightspeed!