Coming Changes to BH/Jedi

[HackerEd]

Not in support of these changes.... they seem to be out of the blue, possibly to cater to the group of new jedi who dont know how to play their class.... which is already supposed to be a hard class to play and rare in the galaxy.

Instead it seems most people have an alt thats rushing jedi, despite not knowing the details of how to reduce vis, or fight a BH upon confrontation.Trained by a master... you know how Star wars told the story... The jedi that do know how to play their class have mentioned to me they don't agree with the changes, and already are receiving the benefit of sped up village process, while being safe guarded because it's apparently so hard to be a jedi. AS IT SHOULD BE. Being a jedi is not an easy thing just anyone can be, but some how we are now supporting holding everyones hand so they get a weapon who can cut through any armor with 0 resistance and allow them to group on end game content while creating no vis.... we saying this is now Combat upgrade where everyone can start as a jedi and be super safe doing so.

Its a very sad day.... I thought this was a pre cu server but apparently we just cater to the biggest population with no transparency, timeline, or input from its population of direction devs should be focusing.

I've always supported the SWGemu Devs and still do, but will say these changes while seemingly being shaded to help BHs do not... BHs sometimes need to group up to effectively take out a jedi, imagine being an MMO and making one profession a solo sport with its target being a prestige class....

There's no reason to protect jedis, theres no reason to hold their hands, the people that know how to play jedi will tell you. Unfortunately the cries of in-experienced players may be louder of those experienced.

But if we're just testing things and these are not permanent changes why not tell players? explain what we are testing say they could revert back. We likely cant do that cuz that would drop our population which is most important....

Respectively,
Hacker_Ed

[Azkar]

I am still wondering about the philosophy / reasoning behind these changes. Like why are they being considered / what are they hoping to solve with these? I know several people have already asked but maybe there can be suggestions as how to solve them and in a way not to cause such harm. Like Jedi already had phases reduced from 3 weeks to 1 week. People pick to play Jedi, if you make that choice you agree to what that comes with.

[Kazhar]

The philosophy is really simple, catter for the jedi player base. I would really like to see the numbers on how many force sensitive characters we already have on the server, and going up month after month. 50% server jedi players or even more? place your bets

[Fissile]

bh need some love. Stop the nerf.

#FixWarcryQuitNerfing

[avimeso]

bh need some love. Stop the nerf.

#FixWarcryQuitNerfing

i really dont see how this is a nerf. its simply changing the method in which you obtain your targets information. I mean SOE implemented something similar during CU or just before CU.
warcry fix isnt far away so rejoice...

[Rischie]

As a long time jedi and a long time bh I think these changes ares stupid.

It’s a bh nerf and bh have already gotten a nerf since adks are gone.

[Qui-larek]

I would like to see some detail of the perceived issues that these changes are trying to fix

If I try and work it out from people posts and comments I hear on streams

Some Jedi do not like it that visibility is generated when grouping with friends and wish it removed
Some Jedi have experienced "griefing" which appears to be related to BH knowing the mission they are taking and frequency they can take it


I'm not sure I can see any BH that are asking for changes nor can I see any BH that are saying the proposed changes are good either, actually the contrary


Other thoughts on my mind
When players make the decision to turn their free FS toon into a Jedi the original concept was that you know what you are getting yourself in for - you get this extra slot use it wisely for your efforts
- You will end up in forced PvP, BH hunt Jedi and the player vs player is a key "selling point" over other MMO's
- Your toon will die (later removed)

Equally when BH took a Jedi's mission it was also similar
- The Jedi might be in a house (and I think bomb droids were used to get them out later on as the triggering of the tef caused them to be forcibly exited from the building)
- The Jedi might be on the corvette (I think a sytem message was added to the seekers to show this)
- The Jedi might be in the enclaves which you cannot enter
- The Jedi might be sitting afk for 20hrs a day in their sorosub floating in space unattackable in any way
- The Jedi might FR3 away from you and you cannot catch them

Thus when the BH took the mission giving the name was critical as it helped the BH know / learn the behavior of the Jedi, Oleh for example was know for sitting in his guild hall on Chimaera until there was a decent group of friend online which whom he could group (as group tef was a thing and it made him feel safe) The result was not many BH took his mission during the day but at night would know when pvp started it would be a fun messy situation


I must say these changes look to favor the Jedi and mitigate the risks they are assumed to be signing up for but the surrounding mechanics have changed so much over time until the "whole picture is clear" of the direction of the BH/Jedi/PvP relationship then piecemeal changes are probably only going to cause angst and frustration. More details about the overall vision might be a good move.

I do however lean towards the - there are risks and rewards of using a Jedi, get the rewards if you are prepared to accept the risks, its a playstyle and its not for everyone which is why we have 32 profession to mix and match. I make choices to have 2 crafters and no combat toons, its my choice and I can change it. If a Jedi doesn't like the mechanics they are free to surrender their skills, get off the terms forever and still engage in PvP or take up artisan or go smuggler but until they know the extend of the mechanics then its a difficult decision to make.

Players have to know the ruleset otherwise time invested is seen as time wasted, its why people get so annoyed with nerfs as a way to solve issues.

Maybe a Jedi can use the force persuasion tree to make their name invisible on the terms if they wish to invest the points in it, maybe that can use the force luck tree to avoid group vis - again if they wish to invest in it. Their are many was to solve problems if you put options on the table that people can choose to take if they feel its necessary, thats the beauty of our 250 skill point system

[sbp]

Equally when BH took a Jedi's mission it was also similar
- The Jedi might be in a house (and I think bomb droids were used to get them out later on as the triggering of the tef caused them to be forcibly exited from the building)
- The Jedi might be on the corvette (I think a sytem message was added to the seekers to show this)
- The Jedi might be in the enclaves which you cannot enter
- The Jedi might be sitting afk for 20hrs a day in their sorosub floating in space unattackable in any way
- The Jedi might FR3 away from you and you cannot catch them

Thus when the BH took the mission giving the name was critical as it helped the BH know / learn the behavior of the Jedi

Exactly, being a successful BH has a lot to do with knowing your enemy and having to play around the issues Qui-larek is describing is the part of a BH's life. Can be very frustrating but also rewarding when things goes your way.

A big part of the fun of being a BH is also entering a fight with a jedi you don't know so i see the point. But the payout you can get an indication on what his template is and that can give you an idea if your template even has a chance. Next is going into the fight and finding out how well he's geared/skilled. On bas jedi used to dot a specific pool. Knowing this in advance was crucial to prebuffs.

Taking notes, learning patterns etc was a big part of it and gave an extra layer to being the hunter. That is still possible but so is 5 bhs taking a friends mission and holding it. Everything is just more inconvinient and time consuming.

But if you want to go in that direction then you should adjust somewhere else. For instance making droids report faster, fail less or something to ease the life of the BH.

And if we are just experienting, lets try saber tef to avoid jedi going back into the house. That would be great. One of my best memories from live was stumbling upon a random jedi grinding in the mid of Endor when i was trying to locate my NPC bounty target. It was my first ever encounter with a jedi and i ended taking out both. Still remember the name Taras on chiemera

Regarding the group tef and the ways jedi will be able to abuse it (like Qui-larek is also correctly pointing out) i forsee a lot of occasions where the BH will have to give up the mission or having fight the jedi + his 15 fully decked PVP buddies - who in his right mind would do that?. Jedi has enough advantages on this server as it is.

And all of this is comming from someone who is already on his jedi grind

EDIT

I came to think of.... rebel jedi and imp jedi label on the mission. Is that for ranked jedi only? What about paddys or neutral jedi? Might make sense that when they enter FRS they get anonymous but the rest shows the name. Then at least you know that you are going against a full template ranked jedi

EDIT EDIT

No vis for group members i have no problem with - its probably a big buff to the casual player who perhaps values playing with his friends on the outskirts of Yavin 4 and roleplay but does not necessarily have to be a dedicated pvper or farming endgame content. For the latter this will have little to to no effect (they will get on the terms anyways and maybe wants to) where to the average player i can see a lot of benefit for this change.

[dedaskalion]

Lets have BH TEF transfer when the BH attacks the jedi so they can't just walk into a house. It looks like thats how it was intended to function originally anyway:

http://web.archive.org/web/200503032...ssage.id=57528

"Special Cases for Jedi and Bounty Hunters

The removal of TEF's will affect Jedi and Bounty hunters. Once a Bounty Hunter attacks a Jedi who he has a mission against, both the Bounty Hunter and the Jedi are forbidden from receiving a helpful action from any player. The Jedi and the Bounty Hunter can not be helped by anyone for the period of time after the attack begins."

[Vicktore Beskor]

At first glance this seems like hand holding for the Jedi and a nerf to BH as group hunting Jedi knights and Jedi masters was always a thing that was necessary because of the Jedi’s OP nature. It say this if they adjust loot drops for skill tapes and armor attachments and allow BH better terrain negotiation and better food management it would balance out. Hunting Jedi for m has always been my end game Challenge I can only hope they don’t make it so one sided that Knights and Master Jedi become out of reach for Master Bounty Hunters.All I ask is that those who are working on the game to think of that as well. I am looking forward to big game Jedi hunts.

[hybridtheory]

For as long as jedi exists people are gonna rush strait to it. People are going to want for nothing but it. Braindead move adding jedi to the server in the first place. Should have focused on improving the game.

When they added jedi they basically gave the server a brain tumor. Jedi will consume everything else about your server and has.

For as long as people have any idea how to unlock a jedi, for as long as it has any benefits at all, the server is going to be a jedi server. We have seen a dozen+ jedi servers come and go. Why would you repeat that?

[Azkar]

Another major issue I haven't seen mentioned is that these changes are just going to give Jedi free passes to get fully templated. Why care about vis when no BH can take your specific mission or knows what rank they are fighting? Just get fully templated with the power of anonymity! Why not just farm content as a group of Jedi since no vis! This is going to end up with all the Jedi being fully templated, and since no BH is going to be playing or participating, they will "turn off" this update but the damage of everyone being fully templated will already be done.

[Qui-larek]

For as long as jedi exists people are gonna rush strait to it. People are going to want for nothing but it. Braindead move adding jedi to the server in the first place. Should have focused on improving the game.

When they added jedi they basically gave the server a brain tumor. Jedi will consume everything else about your server and has.

For as long as people have any idea how to unlock a jedi, for as long as it has any benefits at all, the server is going to be a jedi server. We have seen a dozen+ jedi servers come and go. Why would you repeat that?

Update your sig mate
We have 2 chars
We have no ADK's

Not so sure about the multiple accounts - I hear to many cried in auction chat about 24/7 buff bots

[shilo]

For as long as jedi exists people are gonna rush strait to it. People are going to want for nothing but it. Braindead move adding jedi to the server in the first place. Should have focused on improving the game.

When they added jedi they basically gave the server a brain tumor. Jedi will consume everything else about your server and has.

For as long as people have any idea how to unlock a jedi, for as long as it has any benefits at all, the server is going to be a jedi server. We have seen a dozen+ jedi servers come and go. Why would you repeat that?

You misses the party then, Basilisk was up for 5 years before Jedi were possible.

[chebyo]

Makes perfect sense to me. Thank you for being pragmatic and bringing this up to a more modern standard.