Engine3 being closed source is no different than any other proprietary engine being closed source.Originally Posted by na85
Engine3 being closed source is no different than any other proprietary engine being closed source.
Kyada <BoS>
Everything I ever did was about pushing the project forward.
my memory is way fuzzy, but waaaay back when core2 was deemed obsolete and core3 was originally envisioned, it wasn't open source. It had both the engine, and the core, and as I recall you could install some sort of windows shell that would allow you to run the compiled binaries up to that point. It indeed had both a core and an engine. both were under constant change and closed source. I believe that when the decision to go open source was made, that... and here I could be wrong as well... but that the engine was NOT some sort of copyrighted 3rd party library that was worth $$$... it was just the "other" part of the server, and by it remaining closed source, the original developers could "control" the direction of the open source project.
You have to remember back then, oh what 8 years ago?... Open source was New and dangerous territory. the EMU world was rife with competition and drama... Ego's and threats... etc... na85 is still stuck in that world, holding allegiances that are no longer valid or remembered in most cases... To him the engine still being closed source is still an act of control... He doesn't understand that somewhere along the way, TA or whoever owns Engine3 repurposed it and turned it into some sort of 3rd party Library that's worth big bucks... In addition, I doubt TA, or whowever owns it, no longer has the legal right TO open it up... even if they wanted to... It sounds like it's legally tied up in "Other" markets and functions... One of these days I'd like to know what they're using it for. :-)
Like I said, My memory is fuzzy, but above is how I recall it going WAAAY back then. I'd love for someone who was on the inside to write up an autobiography of the EMU project from inception to current. Including all the drama. I doubt we'll ever get it, but it would be a good read. Either way we find ourselves here, today, with a Core that works well, and engine that is borrowed, yet as of now free to use Library, and nearing the next publish... things are looking up. :-)
-Duff
The Windows shell you mention was called Cygwin, and it was mainly for the very early days of Core3, but eventually was dropped support in favor of pure Linux flavor-based builds in Engine3.
But duff is right, a lot of things have changed since those days, and not just code-base alone, but the attitude of staff as well. Scurby is certainly willing to hear any and all reasonable suggestions, but one must remember as Duff also said, Oru owns the rights to the engine that runs Core3, and he uses it for commercial purposes (that I too would like to know what, just out of curiosity).
?
That's my problem, though.
The SWGEMU project isn't serious about being open source. It's basically a testbed for future monetization of an MMO engine and can theoretically be killed at any time by anyone holding the rights to Engine3 for as long as it takes to reverse-engineer what's in it.
No, this project is still stuck in the past in a lot of unfortunate ways.
I've shared your concern in the past. Posit: Core3 reaches v1.0, a couple weeks go by waiting for the grand release, then wham-o Oru decides to charge a fee for Engine3... Technically that doesn't violate any SOE / Lucasarts / ****** agreements cause he's not technically making a profit off of the freely available core3 server. Just the packet interpreting engine3 library... Which is currently a copyrighted for profit library as it stands right now (although I don't think any of us know WHAT it's being used for yet)... Easy enough to prove that it's not profit from the finished emulator...
However... if Oru / TA / whoever is going to lift the restrictions present in Engine3 and allow player communities to get started up prior to v1.0, then I don't see this as being a possibility any longer... A free engine3 without restrictions, closed source or not, doesn't mean anything at all. IF they follow through with this, and allow it (so far nobody has gotten an unlocked engine yet...) then I don't see how it could possibly go wrong any longer. Even if Oru or whoever thows us a curveball in the 11th hour and changes the core & engine to make it a for $ endeavor, we can still just use the unocked engine we HAVE been using, and finish the core ourselves... *shrug* I just don't see the issue any more.
persist in the "truly" open argument if you wish, thoughts are free... but I don't think anyone is really moved by your arguments at this point... UNLESS they back out and keep the engine restricted...
-Duff
This attitude seems so silly to me. Engine3 is analogous to Source, Unity, Cryengine and every other proprietary game engine. Do you discourage people from using those to make games just because they could be 'theoretically killed at any time'?
This is definitely a valid concern that we should have addressed a long time ago but as me and TA were always for the good of this project we never signed a contract in good faith. In fact our intention is right the opposite. We are discussing to use a later version of the engine (engine5, what a surprise :P) for the emu as well, that could enable core3 to support way more concurrent players on multiple nodes. Anyways, an unlimited lifetime license should be granted on paper so i will get to the lawyers about it.
I'm not allowed to share any project names where it is being used, but one could easily find information looking at the right places..
Oru
Founder
oru@swgemu.com | www.swgemu.com
SWGEmu is a non-profit, open source community project.
SWGEmu FAQ | Install SWGEmu | Report Bugs
I'm assuming once accepted I'll get some kind of confirmation email from TA? Also, what is the method of distribution? A private git?
Yes, please bear with us while we are working on the distribution method and finalising the separation of scripts from AGPL. Once both of those are done we will start accepting the requests.
theanswer@swgemu.com | www.swgemu.com
SWGEmu is a non-profit, open source community project.
SWGEmu FAQ | Install SWGEmu | Report Bugs
TA, does this mean we shouldn't have submitted applications yet?
No, submitting them is fine, but thats why we havent started distributing the engine yet.
theanswer@swgemu.com | www.swgemu.com
SWGEmu is a non-profit, open source community project.
SWGEmu FAQ | Install SWGEmu | Report Bugs
Actions speak louder than words. If your intention is for the good of the project, why is the engine source not freely available under a GPL or similar license?
I can't see any benefit to the project in keeping it closed.
Last edited by na85; 06-01-2015 at 07:18 PM.
Last comment I promise... I just had to get out an LOL... - Duff
This is a false equivalence. Spare me your shallow fallacies.
You should put the new No time restriction engine into unstable. It would be no difference from the 2:25 hour engine already in there that is locked. Even if you changed it to 24 hours pushed it to public so we could pull latest wouldn't the engine still be locked like the one i use from unstable at the moment.
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